[Discourse.ros.org] [General] Choice of operating system

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[Discourse.ros.org] [General] Choice of operating system

Gary Edwards via ros-users


Greetings

It would appear that ROS is for use on Ubuntu, and only Ubuntu in practical terms (other options are declared as non-tested and non-supported.

Why was Ubuntu chosen as the OS of choice?





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[Discourse.ros.org] [General] Choice of operating system

Gary Edwards via ros-users


I think that was because the most friendly linux to start when ROS started was Ubuntu.
I have been using elementary OS, and works well because is based in Ubuntu so all Ubuntu based OS works well with ROS.
Debian is also supported since kinetic





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[Discourse.ros.org] [General] Choice of operating system

Gary Edwards via ros-users


[quote="rdelgadov, post:2, topic:5447"]
Debian is also supported since kinetic
[/quote]

Just don't try and use anything from backports at the same time as melodic... that was some fun breakage.





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[Discourse.ros.org] [General] Choice of operating system

Gary Edwards via ros-users
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There's also a good amount of Gentoo support. If you're interested in exploring that avenue, check out the [ros-overlay](https://github.com/ros/ros-overlay).





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[Discourse.ros.org] [General] Choice of operating system

Gary Edwards via ros-users
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>Debian is also supported since kinetic

Yet the install docs state:

>System Requirements

>We support Ubuntu Linux Xenial Xerus 16.04 on 64-bit (until alpha 6 we supported Trusty Tahr 14.04). These instructions should also work for later Ubuntu as well as Debian Stretch, though these are not actively tested or supported. Fedora 26 also works if you follow alternate instructions, though it is not actively tested or supported. The same goes for Arch Linux.

It is interesting in that the repositories are called 'debian' repositories and then upon examination the repositories are 'ubuntu' repositories.

I am looking for the information as the documentation suggests that Debian installs can be made to work but that same documentation states that those installs are neither tested nor supported.

TIA





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[Discourse.ros.org] [General] Choice of operating system

Gary Edwards via ros-users




[quote="dabeegmon, post:5, topic:5447"]

It is interesting in that the repositories are called debian repositories and then upon examination the repositories are ubuntu repositories.

[/quote]



The fact of the matter is simplu Ubuntu is Debian based. While they have diverged rather greatly over the years, the still share the same core package management system. So, both operating systems _understand_ what to do with being `.deb` file.



This, however, does not mean that any `.deb` file can be installed on either system. It could be the case, for instance, that a certain version of a dependency is not available in Debian, whereas it is available in Ubuntu.



So, will it work? Probably. It definitely should. The fact that I don't know for a fact that 100% of the packages on ubuntu can also be installed on Debian leads me to say that.



I can't say for Gentoo, for example, that 100% of the packages can be installed and work on Gentoo, despite my best efforts.



As for whether or not these operating systems are "supported", I suppose that is up to how you define "support".



There are certainly people who will help you get things going. I think I can say rather confidently that there's not a single platform in existence that any of us don't want to see ROS working on. So play around. If you _need_ stability, use Ubuntu (as it is the most well-tested). If you're willing to play around and do some hacking, I'd encourage you to do so (but, to be clear, Debian should basically just work -- the Debs are definitely there).











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[Discourse.ros.org] [General] Choice of operating system

Gary Edwards via ros-users
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>From what I can tell, these are the install docs for ROS2 1. From the layout of the kinetic installation page 2, Debian is listed as being supported.

Debian is listed as supported but the version of Debian listed is considered quite out of date with that versions security support now being passed and about another 18 months left on the long term support. That means that the debian community is only giving necessary security patches and I believe not much else. I have not been following Ubuntu very much but by the information available on Wikipedia Ubuntu 14.04 seems somewhat similar yet the oldest version of Ubuntu supported is 15.10 (itself deprecated by Ubuntu as far as I can tell).

>>    I am looking for the information as the documentation suggests that Debian installs can be made to work but that same documentation states that those installs are neither tested nor supported.

>For ROS2, my guess would be that while the binaries are made to be compatible with Debian, OSRF only has a limited amount of resources to build and test the packages on the buildfarm, so the bulk of those resources go towards building for a single distribution.

I am asking these questions as the divergence between Debian and Ubuntu seems to be reaching  galactic proportions so although Ubuntu was (!!!) based on Debian there is little formal relationship between the two distros and even less similarity between the two when their perspectives are examined (Ubuntu as being supported by Canonical which is itself being positioned for an IPO). Perhaps it is time for ROS to start the transition to a different base operating system?





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[Discourse.ros.org] [General] Choice of operating system

Gary Edwards via ros-users
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Given the divergence between Debian and Ubuntu it is, in my opinion, getting quite difficult to see how Ubuntu is Debian based. Yes that base was there for some time in the beginnings (for Ubuntu) but it is increasingly difficult to see today.

Debian should 'just work' but the last time I started experimenting and tried to affect an install I was unable to complete the Debian version where I was able to complete the Ubuntu one.
As I am not at all versed with 'under the hood' skills I quite count on things 'working' so when they don't - - - well then I just can't use that particular software. I have a project where robotics would be quite useful and be quite an interesting addition but just don't have the funds to obtain all commercial items. I am capable of building the physical parts for the robotics but the software si something that I don't really want to have to develop - - - so I'm back to my desire to run ROS on Debian.
Thanks for your input!!!





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[Discourse.ros.org] [General] Choice of operating system

Gary Edwards via ros-users
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Can you please clarify what it is exactly that you're trying to do, and what doesn't work for you?

For both Ubuntu *and* Debian packages are regularly being built by the buildfarm. For Debian that includes both `amd64` and `arm64` (ie: `v8`) platforms and for the `jessie` and `stretch` releases for ROS Kinetic, Lunar and Melodic (see their respective installation pages on the wiki). Those packages do not share anything, apart from their source tarballs, so are specific to those platforms and releases.

If @allenh1 gave the impression that the Ubuntu packages are supposed to be installable on Debian (proper), then that was not what he meant (most likely), and is also not the case.

There could have been some confusion coming from both your initial question and @allenh1's response: both Debian and Ubuntu refer to their packages as *debian* packages, but that is just because that is the name of the packaging format.





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[Discourse.ros.org] [General] Choice of operating system

Gary Edwards via ros-users
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[quote="gavanderhoorn, post:10, topic:5447"]

If @allenh1 gave the impression that the Ubuntu packages are supposed to be installable on Debian (proper), then that was not what he meant (most likely), and is also not the case.

[/quote]



I can see how I gave that impression, and, indeed, that's not what I was trying to articulate. My main point was, unfortunately, rather subtly placed in that whole mess of words up there.



@dabeegmon to clarify, there are separate build jobs for both debian and ubuntu (since they are indeed quite different). My post _should_ have stated that it is far more likely for a package to work on Debian than, say, Gentoo.



[quote="dabeegmon, post:8, topic:5447"]

Perhaps it is time for ROS to start the transition to a different base operating system?

[/quote]



I don't quite follow your logic -- this feels like a rather large leap to me. Would you mind explaining what makes you say this?



[quote="dabeegmon, post:9, topic:5447"]

Debian should just work but the last time I started experimenting and tried to affect an install I was unable to complete the Debian version where I was able to complete the Ubuntu one.

[/quote]



This can happen in a lot of situations, but the one that I see most likely (with a very incomplete picture of what's going on, and what you consider as a complete install) is that you are trying to install a package that has a dependency whose `rosdep` keys are not present.



If that is indeed the case, you can add any missing keys to [this file](https://github.com/ros/rosdistro/blob/master/rosdep/base.yaml) in the form of a pull request. I have to do this a lot with Gentoo keys, since people frequently fail to add the Gentoo keys when they add their package's dependencies into that file (but, honestly, who can _really_ blame them).



If this is not the case, then I'd need more information from you.











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